unwittingly been cuckold - any advice

Hey overwhelmed. Although I relax with a lot of wives and girlfriends, my position has always been that I don't understand why their partners put up with it (but whatever turns them on, right). Don't worry about being aroused by the thought of her fucking other guys, that doesn't mean you actually want her to (and your posts make that obvious). Being aroused by this is a natural instinct, whether you're a cuck or not. It is an instinctive reaction to want to fuck your woman if you think she's been cheating. The instinct is there to try to make sure it's your seed that gets 'planted'. Studies have also shown that men's semen count will increase if they think their partner has been cheating. So there is a natural and instinctive reamister men get aroused by cheating partners. On top of that, there is a natural reamister why women are more likely to have a greater orgasm when they cheat. I won't go into the anatomical reamisters for this, but an orgasm increases the likelihood of conception. Multiple partners diversifies the gene pool of the woman's youngren making it more likely more of her youngren will survive. On top of all that, studies have shown that women are more attracted to, when looking for a long term relationship, stable men capable of providing. But when they cheat they are more likely to look for physical characteristics. Both those tendencies (and there are all sorts of exceptions, these are only tendencies) again make it more likely that her offspring will survive - capable man to provide, physically fit man to breed.

So those feelings are natural and are not inconsistent with the rest of your feelings. And given the rest of your feelings you should dump her. But be forewarned, I am betting she will come back to you in about a years time asking you to take her back. I also have to agree with some of the points made by SD FemDom, particularly that this girl, at 23, probably hasn't had enough time to experience life yet before getting married - unless those experiences are open to her while she is married.

Good luck!

overwhelmed

OK, I think you are both young and stupid and take too much. Having said that, I am sympathetic to your situation, but I am increasingly unsympathetic to how you are dealing with it. You have gotten mostly good advice here and even figured out for yourself that some of it was over the top and counterproductive. So why is this still going on?

Look, as you admit yourself, you don't need some adolescent fantasy of revenge acted out before you go - they never go right in real life anyway. Just stop it now. Here's a thought - the next time she is whispering about how she loves you just ask her flatly: "Then why are you plotting with Rick to have another gangbang?"

There you go - all out in the open. You don't need to expalin yourself or apologize at all here. Whatever she says, your point is essentially, "yeah, I know about your boyfriend. He sent me videos on the internet. That sick fuck even wants me to come along and help your little slut party - freakin' closet case. Look, you think I railroaded you into living together, or you're not sure about getting married, or don't know who you are - whatever. I know who I am and what I want and it isn't this. So have a good life, maybe we can even be friends again after time passes."

Then go. The place is rented, so you have two choices - move out and leave her with the rent or stack her stuff on the stoop and get the lock changed. It doesn't matter if you have to go back to your folks or relax on the coach of some mate. Do it. In fact, you could just do one of those things and forget the whole telling her why thing. (You'll get around to it later.) Hell, you don't even have to take your stuff - screw it. (And don't give us any crap about leases - they are made to be broken and transfered.)

I know at your age this seems like a big deal, but you know what - all this pop culture stuff about "only one girl for you" yadda, yadda, yadda is total bullsh-it. Just get on with your life. (Hell, you don't even like her anymore!) Today, man, TODAY!
Pantalone, Wittol, oblate, abnegator, fellator, pathic, irrumatiophile,fop, epicene, cotquean, skivvy, thrall, and pilgarlic.

So SFfemDom, you took the time to write and it's your opinion and I can't fault you for that. But I don't think that I in anyway turned around and "pimped her out."

overwhelmed, you are taking this all way too seriously and over analyzing everything. Also, don't make the mistake of taking advice from women about how to handle and treat and act around women. They are well-meaning but wrong every time. This is true if you're trying to attract a woman as well as trying to handle a cheating one, as in this case.

Simply because you set it up, the women will blame you and think that she did no wrong whatsoever:

"""Because she hasn't done a damn thing wrong in My book given the circumstances.""""

But when you watch shows where the wife/girlfriend hires an attractive female private detective to come on to their husband/boyfriend and he responds...BUSTED ! He's scum of the earth, right?

There's a double standard in our society and this is protected by women. When a woman cheats, it's somehow the man's fault. When a man cheats, he's a scum bag and you should take him for every cent he's worth and ruin him.

Your feelings that you should move out of your own place and leave her there come from the fact that you don't want to kick a woman out. Because you're the man, you feel as if you should be supporting her and that she can't make it on her own. Bullcuckolds brownie, she's using you.

It surprises me that you're still on here, she's still with you, and that you're taking advice from anyone. Be a man and dump the lying little leech. And feel good about it at the same time. Put all her cuckolds brownie in a box, put it on the porch, change the locks and tell her through the window that you know she's a lying little cheating bitch and tell her to take a hike.

End of story.

It will immediately improve your self esteem, confidence as a man, and raise your standards. You'll even find that you'll start to attract higher class women and friends. It will show that you have standards and behaviors that you won't tolerate and boundries. It's a good thing. You shouldn't be giving this matter even a second thought, just get rid of her and all the drama bullcuckolds brownie that goes along with her. Who gives a cuckolds brownie where she lives? She can get a job and pay rent like everybody else.

Similiar thing happened to me in my late 20's. I was a wishy washy whimp guy and put up with all kinds of cuckolds brownie from women. Then, the one I was living with just went too far. Caught her lying and having affairs with the men from her work. She would use the old 'I'm working late' routine and go see them. We were 3 years into a commited realationship. Being the dumbassed whimp that I was, I gave her a second chance. Well, you guessed it, she started up again after a couple months or so. Then I asked myself, "Do I really want to go through life with people like this? Are these the kind of people I want around me? " Hell no.

I'll never forget the day I kicked her ass to the curb. It was hard, I second guessed myself the entire time but looking back, it was one of the best things I've ever done. Raised my level of confidence and class almost immediately. No more low life cheaters, drama queens or losers for me. Years later, I married a WONDERFUL honest, caring, giving, HOTWIFE, woman just full of integrity. I learned what to look for and wouldn't settle for anything less. She knows I have standards not only for myself but for others around me. I treat her very well and she treats me the same way, on the same level.

I recommend that you take this opportunity to kick the lying bitch to the damn curb and you'll have the admiration of every man alive.

As a side note, the cheater that I kicked to the curb? She went through 4 other men over a period of 11 years and cheated on every single one of them. Got dumped by half of them when they found out and dumped by the other two after they got sick of her using them. She's now about 60 pounds overweight and living with a lesbian BBW in some sort of relationship. Low class all the way.

Raise your standards, my friend, get rid of this low class lying bitch.

Thank God you found out now before you got married. This girl
is fucked up just like SFemDom.

Alright Overwhelmed, it's rolle here buddy!!! your original ear before everybody came to the rescue LOL, you actually have gotten some really good advice on here but don't listen to SFFemDom. First of all, I doubt she's a chick, and second of all if she is she's a stupid bitch and should shut her mouth and learn her place. Jamesriske said it best, there is DEFINITELY a double standard in this society that puts the blame on men for cheating even when it's the other way around. When a woman cheats, the man some how DROVE her to do it. BULLSHIT. Women can be just like men can be, plain and simple. They can cheat, lie and do whatever they can to get away with it, the only difference is we're supposed to be made to believe that it's our fault. It's also different in the bedroom, if we say we want more sex we're supposed to shut up and understand the woman doesn't want to. If it was the other way around, we're supposed to make changes and give the woman what she wants. I've actually heard that on a talk show by some female "psychologist".

LOL OK, I got off subject a little bit, sorry.:0) You are dragging things out a little buddy. I feel for you just as much as when we first started talking, but you need to take a deep breath and do it. You're prolonging the inevitable. You know you are. She will NOT have a change of heart, even if she doesn't go to the gangbang, overwhelmed. She'll just find another one when she feels safe again. You need to realize the image and fantasy of the girl that you ahve in your head is not the girl that's actually standing in front of you. No matter how hot or how charming she may be, all you're doing is building her up on this pedestol and creating an image of what she is in your head of what you would LIKE her to be. That's not really her dude.

Remember, go back to the basics. Remember how good and confident you're going to feel when you COLDLY say to her that it's over and you don't want to be with HER. No wimpering, very confidently. You need to keep reminding yourself of that. I'm still thinking about you and hoping that things go your way. Keep me posted buddy. LMAO I feel like we know each other! LOL.

Umm...OK. You say it was hard and it took a lot to decide you need to break-up and I can understand that. But you also say you have decided to, so that is all past tense. Your reasonfor not acting now? You say you want to wait for the very last moment to make sure she doesn't have a sudden, unlobbied change of heart!

You seem an awfully sensitive young man overwhelmed, so please don't take what I say next as harsh or meanspirited - it is said with the best intent: I think your plan is dumb, self-defeating, and delusional. You are trying to make this all her choice, to create some sort of trigger in her behaviour that decides it for you. This kind of avoidance is deeply unhealthy and in this situation potentially dangerous.

In my view you have only two decisions to make:

1. Are you done or do you want to try to patch it up with her? You say you've decided and "know" you have to leave, but you hesitate because you say you still love her. Another way of saying this, overwhelmed, is that you are conflicted and not decided. If you do want out, the way is clear. You can walk anytime and you should walk right away from this emotionally, psychologically (and potentially physically) dangerous scene.

If you still harbor a glimmer of hope (and who am I to say you shouldn't - though your own writings suggest it is foolish) for saving your relationship, the ONLY path to this is to open up to her now. Tell her everything. Your stupid trusting of a stranger. The photos he sent. The things he said he wants you to do and, most important of all, how each part has made you feel. Hell, print out this enitre thread and give it to her. Then the two of you can storm it out and decide if you want to keep trying. The truth here is that your relationship is not on very solid ground now - way not solid enough to survive matrimony. The key to successful marriages and relationship is total and complete honesty. If you want to have one in this case, you need to set the example and the pace by opening totally up. (Before the planned orgy, obviously!)

2. How you really feel about Rick's proposed little scene? Now, again, don't get defensive here; I mean only to help and these are just words. The thing is, you say you know what you want to do, but you keep coming up with excuses not to do it. Who gets the apratment, blah, blah. For pity's sake, when I post a message encouraging you to put down the mouse and just act, you reply is "he didn't send me a video." overwhelmed, why do you give a cr-ap if he sent videos or stills or whether I understand the exact nature of the evidence he sent? It is totally irrelevent. Details are important in courting and masturbation fantasies. In decisions on relationships it is the aggregate big picture that counts. As told [u]by you[/u] this adds up to:

A. She cheated on you.
B. You were emotionally vulnerable as a result and trusted a stranger you shouldn't have. (Call it Lewinsky Syndrome.)
C. You gave her a second chance and took her back.
D. She cheated on you again with said stranger.
E. You believe she is plotting to cheat on you YET AGAIN.
F. You decided to break up.
G. You can't seem to get up from the computer to do it.

Now why is that last one so? You say you are here for genuine advice. It is an odd place to come for that, but you've gotten it anyway in spades. You agree with the advice but don't act. Could it be you don't want to? Could it be you really want this all to go down the way Rick describes or at least part of you does and you are conflicted?

Now, in my opinion, this doesn't change anything. If you think you may want to go forward, you still need to level with your fiancee (if you still think you might ever be married, it is high time anyway). If you are a couple, you make these kinds of decisions together and you need to talk this out.

So, enough with the obsessing on minor points in people's posts overwhelmed: time to level with us. Are you ready to go, or do you want to give it another try? Do you want to explore the cuckold presentation thing (I mean, you are here at this site) or not? Straight answers will help you more than us.
Pantalone, Wittol, oblate, abnegator, fellator, pathic, irrumatiophile,fop, epicene, cotquean, skivvy, thrall, and pilgarlic.

There is no room for him to explore the cuckold/submissive thing, MrsBlackBlowupDoll. She cheated on him. Get it? That's it, End of story.

There is no other option than to send her ass to the curb. Good bye and good riddance.

If he wants to explore his cuckold/submissive side, he needs to find an HONEST woman with INTEGRITY to do it with.

Not this one.

There should be no more discussion about what he should do in this thread. SHE CHEATED.

Get rid of her.

Life is short. Are you willing to take the 99.9999% chance that she'll ever change?

NOPE.

It's so easy to find another woman who is honest, loving, respects him, has integrity AND one who would like to play cuckold games with him at the same time. Why waste his time on a proven loser?

Dump the skank.

Let her move in with the other guy. I can guarantee they'll be broken up within a year.

"""""If you still harbor a glimmer of hope (and who am I to say you shouldn�t � though your own writings suggest it is foolish) for saving your relationship, the ONLY path to this is to open up to her now. Tell her everything.""""""


This is a fantastic example of what NOT to do and that you should NEVER take advice from a woman. God Bless you, MrsBlack but while you're well intentioned, that's the last thing he should do.

She will lose respect for him, consider him a push over, and her interest level in him will plummet. He will be a whimp, a doormat, and too easy for her. NEVER tell a woman a damn thing. Women love a mysterious guy who is a challenge. Women want three things challenge, a man who in control of his emotions, and a confident man. In fact, a woman's greatest weakness is a man who is a challenge, a man they have have to chase and fight for. Not some whimp who pours his heart out to them when he really should be kicking her cheating ass to the curb.

A great guy that I recommend is:

The hyperlink is visible to registered members only!

As silly as it sounds, I got his system and took his courses years ago and it changed the way I treated women. They no longer confuse me at all. They no longer played games with me and I never had to seek advice. I followed his system and had gorgeous women chasing me. It's true. I ended up marrying a wonderful woman that is totally out of my reach. She's nuts about me and I keep her that way.

One of the things Doc Love says to guys is this: never marry a woman who you wouldn't trust enough to go into business with.

Think about it, overwhelmed, would you go into business with this woman? hell no!

Dump her.

Find another.

overwhelmed

I appreciate that you could see what I was trying to say and while you don't have to agree with it perhaps you can see the point of it. I agree with MrsBlackBlowupDoll you have some decisions to make. The main one being can you really live without her and if not; can you actually live this type of lifestyle? From the looks of it perhaps the problem is not in her having sex with other men but more that she isn't being open and honest about the fact that she is with you. I do feel that the dishonesty is a huge problem nor do I condone that part of what she did.

you admit you love her and that she perhaps isn't the girl you thought she was. Maybe that's because she didn't realize who she was herself and is finally discovering that. Everyone else seeing her as a mature 23 doesn't mean she is that within her own heart and mind. Again, it's everyone's perception of her...but perhaps not who she really is.

Have you attempted to sit down and discuss with her calmly and rationally her experimenting? Have you discussed how it truly made you feel when you watched the DVD? That it was a turn on for you? Would you feel differently about her experimenting with other men if she was honest with you about it and you knew what was going on?

In a cuckold relationship it is out in the open. There aren't any secrets or lies because they aren't neccesary. It is agreed upon by both sides of the relationship. It is possible to have a loving relationship and marriage that is cuckold in nature. The way you vacillitate between staying and going I just feel that you will regret not sitting down and discussing these things prior to deciding to break it off with her. After sitting down and discussing you may not find that breaking off will be necessary at all. In fact you may find that it is a lifestyle you can both enjoy and move on to another chapter in your life together. On a final note...I appreciate that you replied in a gentlemanly way regardless of whether you agreed with My opinion or not.

In either case I do wish you luck in the decisions you make and the outcome of the situation at hand. I would like to offer to dicuss it with you privately, your email was published earlier in the post and if you would like to discuss the cuckold relationship from someone that is actually a participant in one or simply ask some questions please just let Me know and I'll be happy to email you with My private address. I realize that I was rather harsh in what I said in My previous post but I hear so often from couples that dabble in the lifestyle without fully knowing the emotional and mental costs it can entail.

As for the rest of those that replied to what I had to say... My opinion is My opinion and just as you have the right to yours, I also have the right to Mine. overwhelmed made a mistake...which he admits to...in leading Rick to his gf. The question is, would she have cheated with Rick if overwhelmed hadn't led her right into his clutches?? Rick took advantage of a situation and I don't necessarily condone his actions either. It seems a mess all around.

The difference between overwhelmed's gf and I are quite marked. I don't lie or do what I do in secret. I'm quite open and honest about seeing other men. The man in My life chooses to accept it because he loves Me and wants Me to be happy. There's no reamister for Me to be dishonest. He loves and accepts Me for who I am. I love him just as much and My seeing other men for sexual pleasure has nothing to do with My love for him. It works for Us and W/we're happy with the life we've chosen.

""""""""The question is, would she have cheated with Rick if overwhelmed hadn't led her right into his clutches??"""""""""

Doesn't matter.

She cheated and is continuing to lie about it.

What a double standard. If a woman hires a private detective to flirt with their husband/boyfriend and he asks for her number or kisses her, he is busted and the scum of the earth. I see it on the Maury show all the time. The entire audience agrees and boos the man off stage.

But here we have a case where the woman is fucking the other guy continually and lying about it - even making porn videos - and the women here all tell the man to 'tell her everything' and try to sensitively work things out with her because it's his fault.

Unbelievable.

Don't buy into this women are the weaker sex bullcuckolds brownie and coddle her. Dump her lying, cheating ass to the curb.

jamesriske

I don't condone anyone cheating on either permister be it a man or a woman. I'm not seeing where I'm putting up a double standard. There is no reamister for either to lie. Just as the women that set men up get what they deserve so did overwhelmed in My opinion. Granted he may have done so unwittingly. he still perpetuated the situation by leading him to her. If one is going to dangle a carrot in front of a horse why are you suprised when it eats the carrot? There isn't a reamister to be dishonest at all. What I'm saying is that the two of them have yet to discuss what happened honestly and openly. Perhaps she lied because she doesn't think he will understand her need to experiment with others. Perhaps if they open up and discuss it they'll find there doesn't need to be any dishonesty. Overwhelmed just discovered the cuckold lifestyle at 28 (I believe) and she is 6 years younger. She may not be aware of it as a lifestyle possibility either. Why shouldn't they at least discuss it and see if they can still make the relationship work? They've both made mistakes...why isn't it possible that they can get past those mistakes and work out a situation that works for BOTH of them without having to be dishonest about what they both want?

I don't see a man as weak because he wants me to be happy. I see him as far stronger and with a higher self esteem than anyone else. I admire him far more for being man enough and stong enough to accept this part of Me. I've never seen Mine as a weak permister to be walked over or taken advantage of, he's more of a man in his ability to see I choose to be with him regardles of whom else I enjoy having sex with as well. He always knows I'm coming home to him. I always will.

SDFemDom

I agree that he made a mistake too and if she turned the man down and then later found out that he set it up, she would have to seriously consider dumping him for dishonesty. I agree and have no double standard.

HOWEVER, she is cheating on him on an ongoing basis and even making porn videos with this other guy.

There is no discussion and no sense 'talking about what happened openly and honestly". She has no integrity and is completely dishonest and deceitful.

Dump her ass to the curb.


"""""I don't see a man as weak because he wants me to be happy. I see him as far stronger and with a higher self esteem than anyone else. I admire him far more for being man enough and stong enough to accept this part of Me. I've never seen Mine as a weak permister to be walked over or taken advantage of, he's more of a man in his ability to see I choose to be with him regardles of whom else I enjoy having sex with as well. He always knows I'm coming home to him. I always will.""""""

I don't see a man as weak because he wants his woman to be happy either. The question is WHAT and HOW to make his woman happy. Opening up his heart and telling her every damn thing and every damn sorry assed emotion he has will not make her happy or make her more interested in him.

Women do not like Mr. Nice guy whimps at all, although they say they do. They always just use them for favors or friendship but always end up with a man that they respect and one they know who will protect her. Certainly not some immature whimp who shows up at her door in the middle of the night crying and telling her all his emotions and feelings and professing his undying love to her no matter what she does.

Women don't want a little boy whimp, they want a man.

overwhelmed has a great opportunity to be a man here and leave his Mr. Nice guy whimp boy behind and kick this lying, manipulative bitch to the curb.

GO MAN GO!

jamesriske

James, I've been very clear that my opinion is that he should walk. Thing is James, he isn't walking. So, what I'm trying to get out of him is: why?

If he wants to give this woman another try or to experiment with her and Rick, I don't say he should. In my humble opinion, the girlfriend needs to get therapy and this Rick guy needs to get smacked around. But you know what? In the end it doesn't matter what I would do or you would do in his situation: it matters what he wants to do. And if in his own wisdom he wants to continue with this woman, let alone marry her, he needs to stop all this juvenile psychodrama crap and talk to her (and himself) straight and honest. That, by the way, is what growing-up and being a man is all about.

Oh by the way, despite my moniker I am a male. It never occurred to me anyone would get confused about it here. No misleading intended.
Pantalone, Wittol, oblate, abnegator, fellator, pathic, irrumatiophile,fop, epicene, cotquean, skivvy, thrall, and pilgarlic.

Yes, I know have wavered, but I'm now going to focus on all life's possibilities without her.

God, this new generation is more whimpy and PC than I thought.

Jamesriske, gotta disagree with the comment, but you've given me kick ass adivce, and i owe you plenty for that...if i come across as whimpish, that's not my generation's fault, that's me, but it's also only a picture of me during an incredibly mentally fucked up period.... in regular life, i think i would surprise you.

Bottom Line - I will remember your advice

jamesriske

Well James I guess I'm a little strange because I appreciate a nice guy. Perhaps I just got lucky, Mine is not only the best man I know but I know he would take care of Me and protect Me in a heartbeat. He's in no way a wimp, nor weak....he's simply more enlightened than most in that he knows he can't please Me sexually and doesn't want Me to lack that pleasure in OUR life together.

I truly don't want you to take this wrongly James, but not all women are users. It's a shame that that seems to be the way you view women. Or at least that's how you've come across at times with the exception of your wife. Believe it or not, nice guys don't always have to finish last.

overwhelmed....ultimately it's your life and your decision. I wish you the best regardless of which way it all goes. I do have to say it took alot of guts to go to a public forum as you have. I'll continue to check in to see what happens.

SDFemDom

overwhelmed
Congratulations on making your own decision. Not that it should matter to you, but I think it was absolutely the right one. If you are interested in exploring cuckolding or your submissive side, or any other aspect of your sexuality, you are much better off and will get more from it with a new partner in a baggage free relationship. Living in NYC that shouldn't be too hard. (Go to a club, place an ad in the Voice or the Press, just go to Craig's List, etc. - I suspect you know more options than I do.)

I'm a New Yorker myself and now that you say you live here, the whole rent thing makes more sense to me. But you know the great thing about New York? You can live a block away from someone and you might as well be on the opposite side of the world. Hell, for all I know you and whatshername are the young couple that moved into 3B a few months back. My point is that the city offers lots of options for partners and friends and lots of second chances for the broken hearted. Put some distance between you and her and start calling some old friends you never see anymore.

By the way, by distance, I also specifically mean physical. As in: let her go stay with her folks until her apartment comes through in February. As long as you two are under the same roof it is an emotional danger zone for you. I mean, what is your plan when she does keep her little appointment? How will you explain to her when she gets back that she is on the couch under a calendar? Ugly, my friend, ugly. And packed with the risk of relapse on your part. (Look you loved her, so you have to still have feelings - this is a weakness she will exploit in her desperation.) And what about when she decides that she is bringing Rick over to relax with her, since you two are just roommates now and she is a free agent anyway. Bad news.

Liike I said, I'm a New Yorker myself and I understand that leaving your place is a big deal. I don't think you should. Change the lock and let her hit the bricks. She has parents near and friends. If you can't bring yourself to do that, however, than just gather your stuff and go. Better to be peacefully living out of a bag on an acquintence's couch than being under emotional threat and psychological assault in your own home.

Good luck.
Pantalone, Wittol, oblate, abnegator, fellator, pathic, irrumatiophile,fop, epicene, cotquean, skivvy, thrall, and pilgarlic.

Overwhelmed, you should also know that what your partner is going through is not all that unique. I'm in the process of seducing a 19 year old into the same thing. She's incredibly hot and very into this, and yes she has a boyfriend. And yes that makes it more exciting. But I'm telling you, most women go through this stage. I call it a slutty stage, but that shouldn't be seen in a negative sense. She has this absolute desire to be a slut and wants to thorough explore that side of her. But it is a stage. Some stay in it, some go through it and then never go back. Your girl is going through it and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Nor should you want to. Either accept it or move on, and I think you have reached that conclusion. I think the permister most in the wrong is this Rick guy. The only offense I enjoy is when the boyfriend/husband fully realizes that I am having his partners mouth, pussy and ass for my enjoyment. But that only happens if the woman wants it to, and I don't take the offense much further. This guy is a creep and if anything you should be mad that she has such poor taste, not that she is going through this stage. Having said that, though, I think if she knew how he was treating you she would call it off in a second.

overwhelmed, if you haven't kicked her skank ass to the curb by now, you are a whimp. No hope for you. Sorry guy but I call them as I see them. Women can sense a whimp with no confidence a mile away and she has already spotted you, my friend.



SDFemDom,

You're putting words in my mouth, or in this case, on my keyboard.

I never wrote that 'all women are users'. Matter of fact, I'm married to a wonderful woman who is not a user at all.

What I'm saying is that unless he raises his permisteral standards and keeps meeting generally young, uneducated women, the majority of them will be users. But if he raises his standards and focuses on meeting higher class women, he'll find that fewer of them will be users or low class.

What you're saying about nice guys only proves my point in that the worse permister to take advice from on how to attract and keep women interested is a woman. You try to confuse men with being a Mr. Nice Guy with protecting and taking care of their woman. And when men read that, they turn into a whimp, let their woman get their own way, and constantly seek her approval. All the things that turn her off.

If a man comes across in dating as throughtful, caring, and a 'good friend', he is not considered by that woman as a potential mate. FACT. Any man who has ever gotten the 'let's just be friends' speech after being a Mr. Nice Guys knows this to be true. Or the guys who suddenly find that the woman isn't answering her phone anymore after only a few dates for no apparent reamister at all. Once he's done trying to figure out the illogical female way of thinking, he'll start to understand that women don't want a Mr. Nice Guy or endless walks on the beach where he brings her flowers and pours his heart out to her.

Doc Love says it best:

**********


"Nice Guy" is a term used by females to describe a male who is thoughtful, sensitive, attentive and considerate, and is therefore disqualified as a potential mate. Now besides being told by a woman that you're a Nice Guy (which is the kiss of death), how can you tell if you have the dreaded disease?

You are suffering from The Nice Guy Syndrome if:

- Your bill at the florist last year was more than your monthly house payment.
- Women often tell you that "You are such a good listener."
- When you arrive to pick up your date at her place, her cat isn't even threatened by you.
- You didn't go the concert that you had tickets for because your female friend needed your help that night, moving her furniture out of her abusive boyfriend's apartment. (You do things for women that you'd really rather not do, but you pretend that you do not mind so that they will like you more.)
- You are more comfortable hanging out with women than with men and you have few male friends.
- Your biggest thrill in the last few months came after you spent an entire Saturday fixing your foxy neighbor's broken toilet and she said, "You are so sweet."
- You avoid conflict with your partner at all costs.
- Saying the word "No" to your girlfriend never enters your mind.
- It is difficult for you to put your own needs first. You think that if you do that you are being selfish.
- You consider yourself to be more sensitive and evolved than other men.
- The last time you got past second base was three Fourth of Julys ago at the neighborhood softball game.
- You pride yourself on not being like the other men who have "only one thing on their minds." (You happen to have the same thing on your mind, but you hide it from women - and yourself.)
- You always ask for a woman's permission before you try to kiss her on the cheek.
- Your emotional well being is dependent on your girlfriend's happiness. You are happy ONLY when she is happy.

Davin, check this list closely. If you take a real honest look here, then you'll see yourself in some of these examples. (Even men who appear very rugged and macho can still be suffering from The Nice Guy Syndrome.)

But take heart, because now you're beginning to have some understanding as to why you can't seem to create the kind of romantic relationship that you'd like to have in your life. How do these conflicts play out for you in real time, Davin? It probably goes something like this:

There you are. You're horny. You're a bit lonely. It's been a while since you've even had a date with a woman whom you'd consider to be real long-term relationship material.

Ah, but look. This girl who's slightly flaky, yet kind of cute in a way, is showing a whole lot of interest in you, and she's making it VERY easy for you to hook up with her. "Hmm, it feels nice to be wanted" you say to yourself. So you go for it, thinking that you won't have to deal with the messy details of dropping her when you tire of her, until later. And right now you just want some intimacy and affection.

Of course we know what happens next. She falls in love and can't get enough of you. Not only because she had high Interest Level in you to begin with, but more importantly, because she instinctively senses that you don't want or need her APPROVAL.


You could care less about impressing her, so she experiences you as strong, independent, self-sufficient and hence, very desirable. But by this point, your Interest Level has sunken even lower than it was to begin with, and you now have the unpleasant task of trying to figure out a way to let her down easy. (As my acupuncturist Dr. Lao would say, "He who think with his dingy dong instead of his brain, make big mess. Hard to clean up!"

But when you start dating a woman that you really LIKE, your fear of abandonment and your need for approval kick in. What you want more than anything is for her to like you, to like you as much as you like her. What you fear the most is that you may disappoint or upset her somehow so that she won't want to be with you. So you cater to her whims and you don't set healthy boundaries. To you Psych majors, he always let's her get her way.

The irony is that all these things that you do to get her to like you and to try to insure that she won't leave you are actually the very things that make her withdraw from you. Unfortunately, either out of denial or ignorance, you keep repeating the same behavior with each new woman that you like.

So what's the way out of this trap? Awareness and insight are the first steps, Davin, which are what I'm providing you with now.

Next, you must have a fierce determination to do whatever it takes, however uncomfortable, to clean up your act.

**************



Here's over a hundred articles written by him. Admittedly, they are solicitations to get people to buy his book but if you ignore those parts, you can see where his advice shines through.

The hyperlink is visible to registered members only!

so I'm a wimp? yeah, ok. well this "wimp" has spent the last six hours cleaning out his closets. all her belongings are now stacked in the right side of our living room area, pictures off the wall, everything. on sunday, all she will have to concern herself with, is what movers to call, and where to deliver them.

Everything she owns in box to the left

Well, it's Saturday night and I'm sure she's hanging out with him and possibly his friends.

overwhelmed, way to fucking go man. But... so what if she is REALLY with her friends right now? She fucked this dude in YOUR FUCKING BED while you were away, AFTER you took her back after the god damned video. She fucked him in your apartment.

She sucked a stranger's cock on video, dressed as a lady fucking BRIDE! You were her fiance when she did this.

In moments of weakness, do not forget these things man. Remember what a better permister you are, and what a fucked up, disrespectful, undeserving little lieing bitch she is. You don't need her, you don't want someone like her who is so fucking willing to drive a stake through her fiance's heart at a moments notice. Or at a Craig's List posting, as it were.

Life goes on, dude.

Oh, but I have one more suggestion. Did you say you had a picture of Rick in your house wearing your t-shirt or something? Print out that picture, and tape it to the front of her boxes of stuff so that when she walks in your apartment, it's the first thing she sees. Watch the expression on her face as you tell her you never want to see her god damned face again.

As a matter of fact, enjoy that look on her face when she realizes you are done with her. Enjoy it, because you will know from that point on, life will get good again and you're going to come out of it all a much stronger permister.

Well, it's over. Her stuff may stay in my living room for a few weeks till she moves into her own place, but she went to stay with friends. I'll officially break it off this week and tell my parents and go about getting my life and confidence back. I know it's for the best, and is the right thing to do, but in the end just makes me feel sad.

Overwhelmed,

I have to tell you. I agree with ooze and others that tell you that you need to cut your losses and walk away with dignity. I can tell you from experience. I was in a similar situation with a young women from New Mexico. I am from the North East. I met her on MSN. Anyway, after 3 years of a long distance relatioinship I found out she was cheating (of course, I was the faithful one). It took me a long time to get over that woman.

I've been told that it takes twice the amount of time of the relationship to get over the relationship. It is called healing. The problem is... now that I look back, I see that I did the same type of things that you are doing right now. I could have ended it and healed myself much sooner if I paid attention to my brain... when I was sane and not my heart.

I feel for you buddy. I understand that this woman is a looker. The one I wanted was one too. And she had the ability to take my fantaies to a new level. I was hooked... Anyway, until I decided I was finished and tired of getting screwed (mentally), nothing changed. She was fucking around and happy and I was miserable. I had a good looking woman who made me really happy, fullfilled my fantasies and would do anything I suggested to her... Yeah... sexually, she was submissive!!! She was also an exhibitionist.. It *******ed thinking about losing her, but the truth was, I already lost her when she started getting involved (emotionally before physically) with another guy.

Anyway, It's time to wake up and be a man.

I hope you took ooze's advise and told her to go fuck off. No one deserves what she is dishing out.

Now... I just need to say that if you don't do what you know you need to do, then you deserve the treatment your getting as long as you let it happen. Don't be wishy-washy.

I noticed that it has been quite a while since you've posted. I think I can speak for others here when I ask what is goin on and how are you doing?

I've since met another woman who is "MY EQUAL". We are happy together. Get over this woman and you'll be happy. Trust me... I've been where you are... and it's not fun...

Good Luck...

Dave and Dawn

overwhelmed, I am so fucking happy for you.

I hate to see people get treated the way she has treated you, and I am so happy that you did what you did. I know what it's like to have that mental weight, and when it's finally lifted, god damn it's a great feeling.

Tomorrow morning, life starts again.

Overwhelmed,

Both Dawn and I are proud of you.

Whatever happens in the future... good luck. I think everyone here means it.

Good going overwhelmed. And there's no need to be overly mad at her. As crazy as this sounds the mistake she made was not doing what she did but it was that she did not break up with you and tell you she's not ready for marriage - cuz she's not. Odds are this is something she just needs to get out of her system. However, the way she was doing it made you the chump and wimp. The way you have handled things has completely undone that. You are neither a chump or a wimp, and in fact she's going to feel like the chump now. However, as I mentioned before, at some point in the future she's going to want you to take her back. Do it and you're a chump again.

Congrats!